S07E22 - Learning Azure with Jonah Andersson: A Developer's Guide to Cloud Computing and Development Fundamentals

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S07E22 - Learning Azure with Jonah Andersson: A Developer's Guide to Cloud Computing and Development Fundamentals

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Episode Summary

In this episode, we have an in-depth conversation with Jonah Anderson, a cloud DevOps lead and Microsoft Azure MVP, who shares her extensive experience in cloud migration and technology advocacy. Jonah begins by providing a background on her career journey from the Philippines to Sweden, where she has established her reputation as a prolific developer and content creator. She elaborates on her work as a certified trainer and her initiatives to promote inclusiveness within the tech community, particularly through the “Extend Women in Tech” podcast that her co-hosts.

We dive into the important topic of cloud migration, especially the transition from on-premises systems to cloud infrastructure, highlighting best practices and strategies. Jonah introduces concepts from the Microsoft Cloud Adoption Framework (CAF) and the Well-Architected Framework (WAF), emphasizing the significance of assessing an organization’s current environment before embarking on a cloud migration journey. her shares insights on the necessity of understanding the “why” behind moving to the cloud, focusing on solving specific problems rather than simply adopting new technologies for the sake of it.

Jonah discusses her experiences writing her book, “Learning Microsoft Azure,” intended for developers who want to grasp the fundamentals of Azure. In the podcast, Jonah provides a sneak peek into essential topics covered in the book, including migration tips and insights into leveraging Azure services efficiently. She explains that the book is a reflection of her journey through various cloud migration challenges, particularly migrating legacy applications to Azure, and emphasizes the importance of cloud-native design principles.

The conversation also touches on the modern best practices around continuous integration and continuous deployment (CI/CD), with Jonah stressing the need to establish a robust DevOps pipeline before actual migration. She advises on using tools available in Azure, such as app services, Azure Containers, and the Azure Migrate tool, underscoring the need for cost-effective strategies in cloud implementation.

We also discuss the complexities of choosing the right Azure services suited for specific applications, whether it be Azure Functions for serverless scenarios or containers for microservices architectures. Jonah shares valuable resources for developers eager to learn about Azure, directing listeners to Microsoft Learn and other community-driven initiatives.

Episode Transcription

So the cloud adoption framework actually has a lot of steps for organizations or IT teams to start assessing their existing environments first and planning the stage before they modernise and migrate to Azure. And then the well-architected framework allows the team, whoever is involved, developers, engineers, or architects, working in that migration project to think how they’re going to think about architecting for the cloud in a way that it meets all the pillars in terms of resiliency, performance, architecture, and everything. Security, for example, that they need to think about.

Welcome friends to The Modern .NET Show; the premier .NET podcast, focusing entirely on the knowledge, tools, and frameworks that all .NET developers should have in their toolbox. We are the go-to podcast for .NET developers worldwide, and I am your host: Jamie “GaProgMan” Taylor.

In this episode, which is the final one of season 7, Jonah Andersson joins us to talk all things Azure, the many pathways involved in migrating and modernising .NET applications, and publishing to the cloud.

So one tool that I actually highly recommend when it comes to .NET, there is a plug-in for Visual Studio, actually, for .NET, and even, I think, with Java. There’s a tool called AppCAT plugin, and it’s like a modernization tool that is part of the Azure Migrate that allows .NET developers who are ever working in a migration project with .NET, that they can add a plugin in Visual Studio and they can assess their existing source code, .NET source code, based on the well-architected framework, if it’s ready or not, or there are gaps in the code.

Along the way, we talk about Jonah’s podcast “ Extend Women in Tech Podcast” (which I would highly recommend), and her book “Learning Microsoft Azure: Cloud Computing and Development Fundamentals” and why she chose to write it.

Anyway, without further ado, let’s sit back, open up a terminal, type in dotnet new podcast and we’ll dive into the core of Modern .NET.

Jamie : [0:00] Jonah, welcome to the show. We’ve been chatting about getting you on the show for a while now, and I appreciate that it’s been quite busy for you. We’ll go into that a little in a minute, because you’re a very busy person, prolific content creator, prolific developer, prolific everything. So first off, I guess, welcome to the show.

Jonah : [0:23] Yes. Hey, Jamie, thank you so much for having me here at the Modern .NET Show. It’s a pleasure and honour to finally make time to chat with you and be part of your show in this episode. Thanks for having me

Jamie : [0:40] Hey no, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for being on the show.

Jamie : [0:42] So to put a little bit of historical context–historical, it’s from this year–but to put a little historical context into this: Jonah and I got chatting at MVP Summit earlier this year, in march 2025, about you know, I’m very very impressed with with your work and I would love to, sort of, pick your brains and talk about the things that you do and the the podcast that you create on this show; alongside some technical subjects as well. Just because, you know, the way I see it is: podcasting is collaborative rather than competitive.

Jamie : [1:19] So, like, if I can talk about you then that’s great so let’s do that. So we’ll talk about a little bit about you, we’ll also cover things like the book that you have out; like I said the podcast that you produce, and we’ll maybe dive into some stuff to do with Azure–or for our American friends Azure and we’ll talk about that kind of stuff. How’s that?

Jonah : [1:42] That sounds great. And I’m also very glad that we met at the MVP Summit. I know that you’ve been trying to reach out to me on LinkedIn to be part of your podcast. So I’m very glad that we found time. So that sounds great. I have a lot of things to share, both technical and non-technical and even inspiration to those listeners that we have in your podcast.

Jamie : [2:10] Amazing. Amazing. So how about we start with a little bit of a bio review, right? The kind of work that you do, that kind of stuff. Is that okay?

Jonah : [2:20] Yeah, that sounds good. So hi, everybody. Thanks for listening wherever you’re listening this episode right now, on the YouTube channel, on the podcast channels that Jamie has. I’m Jonah Anderson.

Jonah : [2:33] I live in Sweden. I am originally from the Philippines and moved to Sweden about like 13, 15 years ago. And I work daytime as a cloud DevOps lead in a remote project, or also has a label of senior Azure consultant at a company called Solidify. I also have my own company, Jonah Anderson Tech, where I put in my royalties for my book or IT trainings that I do for Azure or cloud development. And very active in the community as a Microsoft Certified Trainer. I’m actually a lead from Sweden as well. So helping out the MCT community and also an MVP for Azure and the leader and founder of Azure User Group Sweden.

Jonah : [3:22] And on my spare time, I try to advocate inclusiveness and diversity in tech, or women in tech community through podcasting on my spare time, along with another developer here in Sweden. And it’s called Extend Women in Tech Podcast. And other than that, I also wrote a book, Learning Microsoft Azure, my first book ever written at O’Reilly as my publisher. And it’s a book about fundamentals of Azure and the result of my cloud migration journey as a junior developer back then that ended up learning a lot about Azure because of that experience and lessons learned. So that’s a brief description about me. I have a lot to share to inspire you, but I hope that we can do that on this episode.

Jamie : [4:11] Sure, sure. Absolutely. So let’s let’s quickly talk about the Extend Women in Tech Podcast and the work that you’ve done to try and boost the inclusivity and equity within the dev space. What does that look like, you know, if someone’s listening into this and going, “that sounds like an amazing thing,” because they will be and they think, “hey I should be listening to this podcast,” because they should be; like what kind of things, what kind of topics come up on that show.

Jonah : [4:42] Yes, actually, the topic of the show is about a mix, but the highlight of the Extend Women in Tech podcast is to lift up women in tech or anybody, if you’re a student, someone professional that has high level positions already in IT, it’s interviewing them about their stories. So the topic is all about the person that we are interviewing, and we usually focus on how they got inspired into working into tech. They don’t need to be a programmer or a developer, but how they got very interested in working in IT. And then usually part of the show, we ask them about the technical skills that they have, like what are they working on day to day in IT. And then finally, like at the last part of the show and every episode, we ask them, what are the top three advice or few things, top advice they have for others, juniors, I mean, regardless of gender, that they want to inspire out based on their experience or stories.

Jonah : [5:50] So basically, the topic is the speaker itself or the guest of the show, and it varies. It can be about programming, front end. And recently, I think we had interviewed someone who spoke about accessibility development and the importance of having accessibility engineers in a project, for example, which actually made me interested and learned a lot as well as someone who only works a lot every day with code or cloud or devops.

Jamie : [6:22] Right, right. That’s, yeah. I mean, I’m a subscriber to the show anyway.

Jonah : [6:29] Oh, thanks, thanks.

Jamie : [6:31] You’re very welcome. So I do think that everyone should be listening to the Extend Women in Tech podcast because it’s a very important subject of like, how do I put it? I’ve been at conferences in the past. Uh this is quickly becoming a a inclusivity thing–and I don’t think it’s my place to talk about this kind of stuff but–I was at a conference before, I won’t say what it was it was within the last 10 years; so that doesn’t help round it down, which is good because I don’t want to name names. But I was looking in the, I was one of the speakers, I was looking in the speaker green room and everybody looked like me. And for those who don’t know…

Jonah : [7:13] Yeah, all guys.

Jamie : [7:15] So obviously I’m male presenting. I’m, I think the older term is “caucasian” but I guess “white British” would be the word you would use. I was wearing a hoodie. I had a beard. Like everyone in the room looked like me. And that, in my opinion, is not great.

Jonah : [7:33] Did you clone yourself, Jamie?

Jamie : [7:34] That’s exactly it, right? Yes.

Jamie : [7:37] And the whole point behind diversity, and equity, and inclusivity is that the more voices we have that are from a different background and a different perspective, the better ideas we will have. It is that simple. It’s just a case of maths, right? Statistics says that if you have more people with different views, you’ll get different solutions to the same problems. And by doing that, you’re opening your mind, right? It’s kind of along the lines of like travel broadens the mind. It’s the same thing. Diversity, equity, inclusion broadens the mind and makes the team better. At least, that’s my opinion of it. And I may be completely wrong. Am I wrong? I don’t know.

Jonah : [8:20] Yeah, I do agree with you, Jamie, on that. And I think those that I actually, since I started public speaking and standing on stages, I actually, in the last few years, I have increased my followers on LinkedIn. From 500 normal connections to almost 15,000 now. And sometimes you question myself. I question myself, “why did it increase?” I mean, for me, it’s not about numbers, but for me, it’s more about fulfilling my why and passion to share knowledge out and inspire others actually in tech. I mean, that includes women in tech, but even like fellow developers like me, male, female, or whatever, gender or age, But I can tell a story about how I started public speaking.

Jonah : [9:09] So I’ve shared and I have been very transparent that I used to be very shy standing on stages until the past like six years or seven years ago as a consultant working with .NET development or even Azure at that time. I had an opportunity to teach kids programming in schools here in Sweden. And I saw that in the classes where I was teaching block programming, Lego Mindstorms and all this JavaScript-based programming to younger generation, I saw that there were only a few girls or female students that were interested in what I was talking about. And it’s almost the same situation as what you experienced also at that conference 10 years ago, where you see yourself and nobody else.

Jonah : [10:05] So it was like me, the opposite way, that I could see there is, this room is dominated by boys very interested about learning logic and programming, but I see these few girls that kind of like not, not so, they looked like they didn’t think that programming and learning IT or tech stuff was fun. And that made me sit back at the back of the room and realise, “hey, they are thinking wrong. I mean, I work as, I mean, And I used to be very shy, but I worked with programming in .NET. I worked with cloud. I like logic. I like to be creative. They should think that this is fun.

Jonah : [10:43] So to make the long story short without saying a novel, that actually inspired me to start getting on stage for the first time and then started sharing knowledge about what I do at meetups and events where I’m invited to at that time that was pandemic. So most of my first community talks were virtual. But that led me also to share a lot and that caused me to be nominated as MVP. And that’s how I kind of like gained my status and name also in the community within Europe or across the globe as well. So I think I can relate to you and I do agree that inclusiveness is very important, not just in tech communities or conferences, but also in IT teams that we have or any place.

Jamie : [11:41] Absolutely and, like, the the way I see it is that if someone like you isn’t willing to stand up and say, “hey I’ll give this public speaking a go and try to inspire others,” then who will right? And, you know, I just want to applaud the brave nature of you going, ‘right I want to… I can see the change that needs to happen. I’m gonna be the change that I need to see." So you know I personally applaud that. So you know that’s that’s great.

Jonah : [12:16] Thank you. Yes thank you. And I think that the brave bravery I did to get out of my shyness from public speaking to standing on stage have this mission to inspire others actually is something that I carry with me every time I get on stage, or speaking in a podcast when I’m invited. So it inspires me as well.

Jamie : [12:43] Right, excellent, yeah. We do need a big… it’s it’s a long fight I think, but we need to fight the fight of, “literally anyone can do this; you don’t have to be any specific gender identity, or genetic makeup, or anything like that,” right.

Jamie : [13:02] And I think looking around at other industries, I think tech is, whilst it isn’t 100% accepting, we still have a long way to go.

Jonah : [13:11] Yes.

Jamie : [13:11] I feel like it’s more accepting than other industries and other workplaces. You know, if I think of like mechanics, right? First thing that pops into my head is, “a male mechanic working on a car,” right? Whereas if I think software developer, as long as no one uses any gendered pronouns to say software developer, I can’t think of a specific, like what that person looks like, right? I can’t see that identity because, and that’s how it should be. There should be no solid identity for that particular industry. I think that it should be completely fluid, then it could be a person of any gender identity, of any background, of any, you know, race or any other kind of identifying features. If you were to identify someone with those features it should be anybody right.

Jamie : [14:03] think at MVP Summit Scott Hanselman wore this brilliant t-shirt had, like, a dictionary definition and it said “inclusivity.” And it talked about how it should be, you know, everybody’s involved and all that kind of stuff. And then it said second definition, “y’all,” right.

Jonah : [14:20] Yes, yeah, he’s awesome. Yes, I like him. He’s advocating a lot for the developer community with inspiration.

Jamie : [14:31] Excellent. Okay, so let’s talk about real quick. We’ve got lots of different things that you do, and I’ve scribbled a whole bunch of stuff down whilst we’ve been talking. So you’ve got the book that’s come out, and we’re going to talk about migrating apps up to Azure, and using the CLI as well–the AZD. Which i got, the episode hasn’t come out yet at the date of recording, so we’re recording this May 16th, 2025, the episode isn’t out yet; but I recently recorded an episode with Maddy Montaquila where she made fun of me for how I say AZD, because she obviously says Ay-Zee-Dee because she’s American.

Jonah : [15:13] I think I would say it Ay-Zee-Dee as well. Maybe because I learned how to speak English the American way when I worked as a tech support for American companies. But it’s fine.

Jamie : [15:25] Yeah. As someone from England, or Britain, or like, I see myself more as a European person. We’ve drifted properly into politics. Let’s pull that back. As someone who was raised in England, I can’t bring myself to say Zee. It’s just, like I, you could hear it as I said Zee then there’s this weird pause, this long sound in there. I just can’t, it has to be Zed, but that’s fine. That’s absolutely fine. Everybody speaks differently. Let’s move on.

Jonah : [15:53] Yes, yes. That’s great

Jamie : [15:55] Cool, okay. So what about this book that you’ve got released then? Very, very, very interesting that’s published by O’Reilly as well. So what’s the book called? What is it about and where can folks find out about it?

Jonah : [16:11] Yeah. So the book that I wrote, my first book that I wrote, that I’d never written before, but I wrote it. It’s called “Learning Microsoft Azure: Cloud Computing and Development Fundamentals” is at O’Reilly. And you will know it is my book because you will see a big blue parrot, which is the Hyacinth Macaw. So if you’ve been a technical person reading books at O’Reilly, they usually have animal book covers of endangered birds or endangered animals. So the book has been released for over a year now. I wrote the book on my spare time, I mean, aside from a full-time job, for about 16, 18 months. I suppose to finish it a year, but O’Reilly has been kind to me and understood my schedule. And I have involved a lot of MVPs and community members or friends into the book. So if you read it, you’ll see a lot of names that probably you know.

Jonah : [17:21] But literally, the book is the result of my journey as a .NET developer, junior developer at that time, that we’re given a mission to migrate an on-prem legacy app that is very old, 10, 15 years old, no documentation, spaghetti code everywhere, and move it out on-prem to Azure. And a junior developer at that time, I actually learned a lot. And I’m glad I did because that allowed me to write this book. And it’s translated now, I think, in at least seven, eight languages. Recently, it’s been translated to Chinese and Japanese, and there’s an e-book version of it. There’s a paperback version, and there’s also an O’Reilly’s platform. So if you search it, it’s on Amazon, and it’s on some major book store, at least worldwide.

Jamie : [18:17] Nice. Okay. And that kind of leads nicely into the topic that we’re going to talk about, which is migrating tips, I guess, and the process, I guess, behind migrating from an on-prem, like you said, perhaps not very documented, perhaps even .NET framework if you’re really unlucky, an application that’s sitting on a server somewhere under the stairs, in the cupboard, in the back room somewhere, maybe even under your desk. And putting that on the cloud, right? And maybe potential pitfalls, and benefits, and stuff behind all of that. And then how we go about it with like the AZD. Sorry, it took me a moment to get that one out of there.

Jonah : [19:05] I think we can connect it actually, because like once you’re in the cloud, you also want to improve the infrastructure part, which is also some things I work, day to day, in my job as a senior consultant, leading the cloud devops team. But what do you want to know first in the cloud migration? I mean do you want to know the things to think about and stuff?

Jamie : [19:29] Yeah. So let’s start from the beginning right. Let’s start… we’ll put ourselves back in that same position you were in when you first started writing the book right. So I am a software developer and my project manager/program manager/customer/whatever has come to me and said, “I need to move this to the cloud. I don’t know why, but I need to move it to the cloud.” How do i do that, right? What’s the first thing that you should be thinking about in that situation?

Jonah : [20:00] That’s very amazing. It’s like what I’m feeling right now is a deja vu; but it’s like I have to travel from the future to back in time at that time. So if I were to answer my boss, manager, asking me to migrate the legacy application that’s like outdated, I would start with… of course, it’s dependent what it is, right?

Jonah : [20:29] So, I mean, you can migrate an app that is .NET, Java, and then when it comes to cloud platforms, you have the option for Azure, AWS, Google Cloud, and you also have the option to either fully cloud on one specific platform or you’re going to do multi-cloud, or hybrid cloud because of a use case. But I would start first with, let’s just say it’s .NET, a legacy app that they had, not well-documented. Different developers have [sat] in that, coding their own style, and it’s a messy database that they have. I would consider starting with the tools that Microsoft Azure has, which is the CAF–the Cloud Adoption Framework for Azure–and also the WAF–Well-Architected Framework for Azure. So the cloud adoption framework actually has a lot of steps for organizations or IT teams to start assessing their existing environments first and planning the stage before they modernise and migrate to Azure. And then the well-architected framework allows the team, whoever is involved, developers, engineers, or architects, working in that migration project to think how they’re going to think about architecting for the cloud in a way that it meets all the pillars in terms of resiliency, performance, architecture, and everything. Security, for example, that they need to think about.

Jonah : [22:08] So those top two, like frameworks or tools are a good start. And also part of it is truly educating and giving this awareness to IT leaders that are leading that project, migration project, and even the teams that are working on that project, that they truly believe in the capabilities of the cloud as well. They’re really educated about the basics because, you know, when you’re migrating legacy apps to Azure, it’s not just about moving to the cloud.

Jonah : [22:47] I mean, you don’t really need to move everything in the cloud. You need to understand what problem it solves, what are the services that suits Azure services that suits your use case, and how does it solve the problem? How are you going to monitor and maintain it? How are you going to secure it? How will we, like, adapt to new technologies that’s going to happen? And even business use case that’s going to change? So there’s a lot.

Jonah : [23:19] Did you have any thoughts on this before I, like while I pause, because I can talk about this without pausing? What’s your thought on this, Jamie?

Jamie : [23:29] So, yeah, I agree completely with the pragmatic approach of, you know, “what benefits and what do we gain from this?” And how it isn’t just a, “just migrate to the cloud, just push a button and push it up onto the cloud,” right? You definitely need to think about, “are you going to be Azure? Are you going to be AWS? Are you going to be GCP or any other cloud provider?”

Jamie : [23:53] And do you want to put all of your, how do I put it, “all of your eggs in one basket,” right? Do you want to be multi-cloud or do you want to be single cloud?

Jamie : [24:02] So, no, I agree. And I think that there is a lot of thought required going in right? I’ve been in several industries and several job roles where a program manager, or project manager, will come to me with a harebrained scheme of, “I’ve had this idea, right.” That’s the worst sentence you can ever hear from a project manager: “I’ve had this idea.”

Jamie : [24:28] And I remember one time I was asked, “can we put it on the cloud, but also put it on prem, but also put it on two clouds, and put blockchain in it?” And I’m like, “Boss this is like a login system. How are we going to put blockchain into that?” And he’s like, “I don’t care. I’ve heard about it, and apparently it’s brilliant.” But yeah there’s a lot of thought needs to go into the why, right?

Jamie : [24:51] I often tell people that the most important thing is to understand the why. And I’m glad that you kind of brought this up really early without really directly mentioning it. You talked about your why behind why you do talks, and why you are trying to inspire a lot of people. And yeah, so I will always ask, “hey, why do we need to go to the cloud, right? Is it because you’ve heard wonderful, brilliant things, or are we seeing a problem that the cloud will solve? " You know, that’s my initial thoughts right there.

Jonah : [25:26] Yeah, I do agree with the why. Because I think I do agree because mainly, I mean, based on my experience at that time, that’s exactly how I felt like my manager just wants to move to the cloud without really carefully planning strategically: how we would go about it and why in the process, who are the team that needs to be involved. And it was really tough for me, that migration experience that really inspired me to write this book, because I was the only developer maintaining the system in production, killing the bugs, making new features while the system itself is very old and it needs to be modernised. But I think not really having this why and motivation why you’re moving to the cloud and even starting small.

Jonah : [26:19] Like for example, there are many projects like legacy apps right now that are probably have been built in production and they’re huge. They expanded over time. But those that really want to move to the cloud, they are in rush. Sometimes you need to take baby steps or mini projects in iteration when you move to the cloud.

Jonah : [26:41] So one tool that I actually highly recommend when it comes to .NET, there is a plug-in for Visual Studio, actually, for .NET, and even, I think, with Java. There’s a tool called AppCAT plugin, and it’s like a modernization tool that is part of the Azure Migrate that allows .NET developers who are ever working in a migration project with .NET, that they can add a plugin in Visual Studio and they can assess their existing source code, .NET source code, based on the well-architected framework, if it’s ready or not, or there are gaps in the code.

Jonah : [27:21] And I think with Copilot built in Visual Studio, it can also help out with cloud migration and rethinking on how to refactor for the cloud, for example. So there are many baby steps required and it’s not just moving out to the cloud because once you’re in the cloud, I mean, once you have the code prepared, you need to think about the databases. Are we going to modernize the databases? Are we going to use like NoSQL or SQL? We need to think, “are we going to use infrastructure as code, for example, Bicep or Terraform, or we’re just going to do the clicking on the portal or the cloud platform?” So a lot of things, Not all leaders think about that, especially if they’re on a different language as well.

Jamie : [28:08] Sure, yeah. And of course, you know, if you’re deploying, and both are still entirely valid, right? If you’re deploying on-prem, you probably have the server built, and it probably has everything you need, and you can just either right-click publish or build something into your deploy scripts that says, “hey, go poke at this machine and push it there.”

Jamie : [28:30] Whereas if you’re deploying to the cloud, I guess, you have to really think about, “how is this app going to be hosted?” right And I guess, especially like you said those non-technical leaders who have the the ideas of, “let’s move it over here,” you know that you you need to then sort of put it to them that, “yeah, cool. The cloud is someone else’s machine, but we also need to tell the cloud how to host it, right. Whether it’s we’re going to split it up, whether we’re going to have multiple databases, whether we’re going to have what’s called failover,” you know that kind of thing. There’s a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be discussed.

Jamie : [29:08] I’m really interested about this Visual Studio plugin that you were talking about. Yeah, because I feel like that that could perhaps help with that sort of planning, right. Because, I guess, before… let’s say we’ve figured out the the why, we figured out where we’re going to host it, how do we go to that planning stage, right? Because, obviously, if I put a program or project manager hat on I can’t just say, “move it to the cloud.” I need to know how long it’s going to take and how many engineers, right.

Jonah : [29:42] Yes, that’s right. So when it comes to the planning part, of course, there are a lot of things or steps to think about when it comes to planning. And as I said, shared earlier, the Microsoft Cloud Adoption Framework is a really good start when it comes to like thinking about strategy and how to get started. So if you like for those that are a listener, I mean, we are an audio right now, but if you go to aka.ms/CAF, you’ll be able to see the guidance there.

Jonah : [30:19] But I think the first start is to assess your project. Like usually in the first phase of the cloud adoption framework is that you’re going to assess your cloud adoption strategy. And part of it is you need to determine your motivations, your mission for the projects. It’s like literally what we’re talking about, why we do what we do. And it goes the same with cloud migration as well. Like anything that we do that motivates us, we need also a motivation: why we’re doing this? Are we going to cloud? I mean, migrate because we’re fixing a technical debt and we want to be competitive globally with using cloud services. Or are we going to modernize because we have a pretty good, but we want to have more capabilities like reliability and all the things, g ood stuff of of the cloud .

Jonah : [31:11] And you need to of course like part of the strategy piece of cloud adoption framework is you need to define who are your team, your cloud superheroes, that will lift this on-prem to the cloud; maybe part of it but you need the right people that truly knows what they’re doing, because when you’re moving this like legacy apps to the cloud you might tweak the code base by refactoring. But you also need to rethink which kind of platform as a service are you going to use based on your use case or what the application does.

Jonah : [31:47] Let’s just say you have a lot of event-driven kind of scenarios in your application, so probably some parts of it needs to be re-architected to use Azure functions or durable functions, and maybe some part of it can make use of you just really using app services with API management. Or maybe some part of it can utilize the benefit of like Azure Container Apps or Azure Kubernetes on Azure. So those things are a lot of factors to think about. But I think the strategy part, the first step is important.

Jonah : [32:25] And then the next phase of cloud adoption framework is the planning part. That’s when you choose your strategy, which projects start, like POC, proof of concept, or first project to be built for the cloud. And then you ready, adopt, and you do the governance in terms of security as well, and a lot of things.

Jonah : [32:47] So there is a big, huge guidance, at least in this framework for CAF and WAF, that I wish I had when I had my cloud migration journey. Because when I did my migration as a junior developer in that one, I didn’t have all this documentation. This is the reason why I wrote my book and share about cloud migration a lot as well.

Jamie : [33:11] Sure. Yeah, I do like the idea that there’s lots to think about, lots to work on. And I love the idea of proof of concepting first, rather than just going, “sure, boss, I’ll just move this to the cloud.” And then you find out six weeks later, actually, I can’t move this to the cloud, perhaps because it’s using some dependency that requires some random thing, like a USB to be plugged in, right? Maybe we’re using some licensed software and we need a usb device to be plugged in to provide that license key or whatever; can’t move that to the cloud. But then I suppose at that point you can then maybe look slicing parts of the app away and putting that on the cloud, right?

Jonah : [33:55] Yeah.

Jamie : [33:56] Okay. So is that something that you would maybe recommend? So let’s say we’ve gone past the point of… how do I put it? We’ve gone past the point of initially coming up with how we’re going to move it. We’ve done a POC. We figured out where our app uses these dependencies, uses these patterns. Cool. So I can just right click and publish, right?

Jonah : [34:24] I mean, that’s what a beginner would do in a non-prod environment, right-click and publish from Visual Studio. I used to do that when I was a junior developer, but that’s not the real world is about.

Jonah : [34:38] So when I was in this project, cloud migration project, because we didn’t have a CI/CD pipeline in that project, I was… so literally I have to code, package all my DLL files in my Visual Studio, copy and paste all those files to a virtual machine that was on-prem and do it the dinosaur old way. But in the modern .NET development today, especially with Cloud Native and Azure, I think it’s not just about publishing it from Visual Studio.

Jonah : [35:12] It’s pretty standard right now, a good standard to at least have a CI/CD or DevOps pipeline. So you either integrate your code where your repository is to Azure DevOps or through GitHub or any other tools like Bitbucket that does the CI/CD pipelines. When a developer pushes the code, then it’s going to be deployed to the cloud. And personally, what I use every day a lot from development to DevOps to the cloud is: I work with Azure DevOps. So I help our team set up their pipelines also to Azure. And I also help out build the infrastructure using infrastructure as code like Terraform or Bicep. So it’s not just pushing the code. There’s also a new kind of like technologies like infracode for automation and pipelines for automation that really helps developers with the productivity as well.

Jamie : [36:21] So I guess the first thing, before I’ve even figured out how to put it onto the cloud, I may need a DevOps pipeline, right?

Jonah : [36:29] Yes.

Jamie : [36:29] If my app has been using perhaps a right-click publish. So then I can say to the boss or whomever, “hey, I actually need to spend some time working on getting this thing ready to go up to the cloud by building out this pipeline, this description of how I’m going to build my app.” Because, and you know I say this a lot right, it’s entirely possible for folks to still be doing a right click publish; that is still a a relevant way of publishing your apps. You know, if it gets you to, “the app is on on the server,” be that on the cloud or on-prem then that’s totally a valid way of doing it. It’s not best practice but it’s a valid way of doing it.

Jamie : [37:23] So then that means then that I need to spend some time before I’ve even… so we even need to dial back even further, right. We’ve got the why, we’ve got buy-in from from whomever is paying the bills, I’ve started to look at, “how do we push out to it maybe Azure is the place to go. Maybe Azure is the way to go. We’re hosted on maybe BitBucket, or Azure DevOps, or gitHub,” and I know how to publish from there. I guess I need to then take another further step back and say, “right, I need to do more experiments and maybe build out my DevOps pipeline,” right?

Jonah : [37:57] Yes, that’s right. So that’s part of being like not just coding as a .NET developer, but also learning how at least truly understanding how the CI/CD pipeline works , when it comes to like this automation when you push and then it gets published.

Jonah : [38:12] But, I mean, aside from that, I mean, I want to back one step because aside from preparing the code that you have, let’s just say .NET app, you also need to prepare. Let’s think about like cloud development with Azure, on Azure. So you have the code in .NET, but you also need to think about cloud infrastructure resources where you’re going to push or deploy your code. It can be an AppService or like functions, but you need to prepare your infrastructure as well. So that’s when you prepare, like, do you have app services ready in Azure already? Do you have it in infrastructure as code? You created it that way.

Jonah : [38:56] So once those two are prepared, that’s when you can configure your CI/CD pipeline because it’s going to build your code. And then there is a next step of the CD, which is continuous development, which is the release part. And once the built code is packaged as an artifact, it needs to be deployed through, like from the repo to an AppService, for example, and build it for the cloud. So those, like, parts of the cloud development is important.

Jonah : [39:29] And then once you have it deployed, you also have to make sure that, like, for example, your app configuration settings in an AppService or function app are secured. Of course, you don’t push your secrets on the repo, especially public repo. But on Azure and an AppService, for example, we use Azure Key Vault, where we retrieve our secrets as a secret management tool in Azure. Another way is that you can protect your applications by like having like Microsoft Defender for cloud and monitor it as well. Because it is hard, tt’s not easy to debug an application hosted in the cloud if you don’t have any kind of like monitoring tools. So for Azure, the commonly used tool is, for example, Azure Monitor or App Insights. So that allows us to see like 500 errors or 400 errors that’s redundant or happening, failures on an app that’s already in production

Jonah : [40:36] So, yeah, I think I hope that answers your questions or your thoughts, Jamie, about the next steps.

Jamie : [40:44] It does. Yeah.

Jamie : [40:45] So we’ve convened a group of devs, and perhaps some ops people, and maybe some DevOps people. We’ve put together a build pipeline. We figured out how we’re going to package up our app. We’ve decided maybe for now, it’ll just be an AppService because maybe it’s just an API, right?

Jonah : [41:03] Yes.

Jamie : [41:03] So I’m looking at… let’s say we’re building an ASP .NET Core web API, and I know I’m going to push it to an AppService. And we’ve got secrets management figured out, we’re probably going to use whatever systems Azure has. Maybe I’m reading from a secret store. Maybe I’m reading from a key vault or something like that. I’ve decided that, “cool, we’re going to be ready. We’re going to push that to our CI/CD pipeline. The pipeline is going to build our stuff.”

Jamie : [41:36] There is this then deploy step that’s missing. I can maybe go and learn about how to do that from the Microsoft documentation because I’m pushing to Azure. But I need to figure out, “am I pushing it up as an AppService and here are my files,” or am I containerizing it? Because I know that containers is a web thing, right?

Jonah : [41:53] Yes.

Jamie : [41:55] So I’m making a logical leap here because I’ve done it myself. I know from my own experience that sometimes it’s better to containerize that app because then we can containerize everything about it and just say to the cloud vendor, “here is my container, go run my app, " right? So I’m thinking more maybe if it’s a .NET framework-based app, I could probably containerize that, if there is a container that it is able to run a version of Windows, and a version of my app, and things like that, right. That’s a little bit harder to manage but maybe that could be my first step is: “just push that out as a container, and just run this.” Is that a valid step?

Jonah : [42:31] Yeah. That’s also a valid step. Another use case.

Jonah : [42:35] Yeah so AppServices also has the support for containerizing apps. I mean, the benefit of putting applications into containers is, of course, it’s faster than virtual machines, but it has this flexibility of not being tied to an operating system. You can just package it, put it in a container. And in Azure, there is a lot of, you can use the AppService with the support for containers, But there is also like their dedicated service for containerization, which is the Azure container apps. And even if you need orchestrations, there’s AKS as well. And even functions.

Jonah : [43:18] I did a talk recently in Global Azure London about how you can… and I also spoke about this on Microsoft Ignite on a short theatre session that Azure Function, I mean, Azure Container Apps has a support that you can put in Azure Functions inside of it. So if there’s a use case that suits that.

Jonah : [43:41] So there is this flexibility of like, what kind of Azure service that you can use based on your use case, or your preference, or technical requirements. And this is when the basics of cloud comes in, like why I wrote my book as well. Because if you don’t know this wide variety, we have to be honest, Microsoft Azure has a lot of services. It’s categorized based on what you need. We just talked about cloud migration. It has a group of things, a framework to follow. But if you’re a developer, very new in Azure, how would you know that Azure function is the best suitable solution for your use case if you don’t know all this basic, at least?

Jonah : [44:29] But what I can at least guide to help developers is that there is actually, if you looked at Microsoft Learn documentation, there is actually a guide. It’s like a flow. I can maybe share it later to you, Jamie, but there’s a flow when to use container apps, when to use Azure functions, and when to use AppServices. It really depends on what you’re trying to comply or you need in your architecture as well or use case. So a lot of things, and it’s interesting that you also asked the questions or brought up the containers as well, which is also a good service. And not many people are aware that they can containerize their applications. And it’s working pretty well in some use cases as well.

Jamie : [45:20] So I guess then based on what you were saying, how do I know what my app is and which offerings, right? I mean, you asked yourself, right? So I’ll ask you the question right back at you. How do I know that my app is a function? How do I know that my app could bea static app? How do I know, you know, how do I know that I can containerize my app and run that as, as an Azure web app? Like, is this stuff documented or is it all in your book? Like, how do I figure it out?

Jonah : [45:56] Probably I did mention part of it. I have 14 chapters in my book. So I started with the basics, but I did have a dedicated chapter for cloud development, specifically for developer tools, and even DevOps, and even about cloud adoption framework and architecture. But I would, I mean, if you’re a .NET developer, this is a modern .NET show. So if you’re a .NET developer, I recommend the Microsoft Learn start page or landing page. So if you search “Azure for .NET developers,” it will give you a lot of like guidance on how you can create web apps, cloud native apps, like how you can build with AI today.

Jonah : [46:40] Even creating mobile apps with MAUI. So there is like a mobile, I remember I also used to do mobile development, but that time that was Java because I could code Java as well. But there is a lot of like options that you can use with Azure for .NET and there’s an SDK for Azure as well. So Azure SDK for .NET allows developers to develop with Azure and even the AI Foundry that came out also allows developers to use AI tools and build with it.

Jonah : [47:14] So I would start, let’s just say, if you have an event-driven app, like an app or a use case that requires event-driven scenarios, I would consider using Azure functions to start with in Azure. However, if you have an architecture that probably requires containers or microservices, I would consider looking to Azure Container Apps or AKS. Then if you have a static web apps or just a simple one, there’s Azure Static Web Apps, And then for normal .NET apps or even Java, actually, it has a major support for Azure app services. So it really depends on what you are. But those top four options is like the standard.

Jonah : [48:05] And if you’re someone like me that also not just develop code, but I also work with cloud infrastructure, like, for example, I help my team set up connections from the dev environment or repositories from DevOps to Azure. So you have to create this like DevOps agents. So we use Azure virtual machines also as our agents that runs jobs and data loaders through the virtual machines. So that’s when you consider using infrastructure as a service such as your VMs. So it depends on the use case. But there are documentations that I can share or they can look up as well. Just search for “Azure for .NET developers.” Then you’re in a pretty good landing page for all good stuff that Azure and .NET can do.

Jamie : [48:56] And of course, one of the other resources that listeners should be getting is your book, right?

Jonah : [49:02] Yes, yes, yes. So if you want to learn about Azure, feel free to check out my book. I know that my AI chapter is outdated after a year because of the speed evolution of AI that came. So when I wrote my book a year ago, I had to change the chapter on AI because Copilot came, I mean, ChatGPT. And then after a year, a lot of AI stuff came. But I’m currently working on going through reading my own book and going through what chapters I need to update based on what’s new in Microsoft Arena or Azure Arena and AI Arena. But first edition is still pretty good chapter, especially if you’re learning the basics of Azure and get started as a developer preparing for certifications for that. So yeah, watch out for the second edition as well, maybe next year.

Jamie : [49:58] Sure. And I can imagine that, you know, you said there that AI is moving pretty quickly.

Jonah : [50:04] Yes, it does.

Jamie : [50:05] Trying to keep up with it would be in a printed form would be suboptimal, non-trivial, not so easy to do.

Jonah : [50:14] Yes. How are you doing? I have a question back to you because I mean, I’m very transparent and honest. I work a lot with .NET, cloud, DevOps. I know what I’m talking about in a workout, but I feel like I still need to catch up with AI development today. So I have certified myself with the AI fundamentals, but I’m really working and looking into how I can build with AI foundry or AI tools. But how are you doing or coping up with your learning and development for AI and .NET, Jamie? Your strategy

Jamie : [50:55] Yeah, yeah. For me it’s been… I’m doing everything locally at the moment. I am using a few APIs in the cloud. So maybe I’ll use the Azure OpenAI API. I always have to pause between AI and API, because I do exactly what I just did then: I fall over my words.

Jamie : [51:18] But yeah, so what I’m doing at the minute is I’m building a bunch of apps locally that use… I have a runner called Ollama which will run a bunch of models on my machine, and I run against that And when I’m happy with what it’s produced, I’m then going to point at the cloud because it’s cheaper to do it on my computer for that initial ideation, right. Then when I’m happy with that sort of initial ideation, I then point at a cloud provider maybe Azure OpenAI API or maybe just the OpenAI API ; there’s a difference but it’s in the governance. So microsoft assure you that your data is not being used for training for the Azure OpenAI API, but there is no such assurance with OpenAI API in my opinion.

Jamie : [52:09] So yeah. Most of my stuff has been interacting directly with the models in a conversational manner. I am looking into MCP–the Model Context Protocol, I think it is–I don’t know whatever MCP stands for. Everything’s changing so quickly.

Jonah : [52:28] I also learned about that recently and I feel like I need to look, what is that? And I know there’s a lot of talk about, I learned a lot also because I spoke at Global Azure and there’s a lot of topics about Azure AI. And there’s, of course, AI Foundry is something I need to look into, but there is also this, that MCP that you mentioned. And then also like new things coming up, like AI agents can talk to each other. And I’m not even into like building my own AI agent and teaching it. But it’s very interesting, these new technologies that are evolving today.

Jonah : [53:08] But it looks like, or it sounds like you’re up for a great project, and I think it’s smart that you start locally, because I know cloud costs, one of the things that also factors that those that we talked about cloud migration, one factor that can actually, I mean, is important to think about is the cost of the cloud. So, it’s not just building for the cloud. The cost of the cloud is also expensive. And if you’re building with AI as well, you have to think about the cost and how expensive it can be. So, it’s not free. So this is these are the factors developers have to think about; so any open source or free tools is always good to use while you’re still learning.

Jamie : [53:50] Absolutely, absolutely.

Jamie : [53:50] So yeah my thought on cloud versus on-prem, right, is that: if you’re hosting on-prem, your initial cost of buying the server rack or whatever, that is the essentially the cost of running on-prem; the other cost of course is ensuring that you have some kind of load balancing or that you can respond quickly to requests. And that’s usually like a one-time, upfront, or your costs can be front loaded.

Jamie : [54:23] But with cloud-based stuff it is very much you’re… I can’t think the of the opposite of front loading, I don’t want to say backloading because i don’t think that’s a sentence that makes sense. But like you’re pushing the cost from, “I’m going to spend, you know, two thousand dollars on buying a server rack and installing all the software,” you’re then swapping that out for, “I’m still probably going to spend about two thousand dollars but it’s going to be spread over six months, eight months, maybe a year of cloud hosting,” depending on how much traffic you get, and how many resources you have.

Jamie : [54:57] And the other cost of course is that once you have the server on-prem, you can create as many environments as you want. You can have a dev environment, a QA environment, the UAT environment, a staging environment, whatever you want. A release candidate environment, an alpha environment, beta environment, live environment, whatever. Because they’re all running on the same machine. You own that machine.

Jamie : [55:18] But if you’re pushing to the cloud and you want to create separate environments, you’ve got to recreate everything. And depending on which buttons you press and which options you choose, it’s going to cost you twice as much for having two environments, three times as much for three environments, four times as much for environments.

Jonah : [55:35] Yes, cloud is expensive. That’s why also like going back to the why here, why and what, and all those other factors in terms of, “what are you going to move to the cloud? What are you going to modernize?” is a very critical decision. And I always, like, I wrote a book about Azure, but I also encourage when I speak about cloud modernization that, “hey, you don’t need to completely move everything to the cloud. Utilize what are the good stuff in the cloud. Think about the costs and the good stuff that you will gain in there. But if you also can gain benefit of having some parts on-prem, like your own private data centers, that’s also good. You can synergize both worlds down here and up there.”

Jonah : [56:21] But Azure, I think I wrote in my book also the option for hybrid and multi-cloud. So there’s a tool probably the audience have heard or probably you have heard also, Jamie, is the Azure Arc solution that includes Azure Local. So that is also a scenario that organization can think about if they prefer to have some parts on-prem and utilize some of the maybe platform as a service, cloud services in Azure as well.

Jamie : [56:52] Sure, sure. And that makes sense, right? Because if you can split your app in a hybrid model or using Azure Arc or something like that, then you’re initially reducing that cost, right? Because we all need some kind of dev environment or some kind of QA environment that represents live that isn’t our machines. So we can test for things like latency and things. So if you can have that on a server somewhere or have it as a hybrid hosted model, that would greatly reduce that cost. Especially for if you’re having, maybe if you have a team of, 200 developers all working on one one product that would be a very fast moving product; but if you’ve got 200 developers working on one product and they’re all pushing changes all the time you’re going to be constantly overwriting that dev environment, and you’ll never actually be able to test anything would you?

Jonah : [57:48] Yes. That’s right. Yeah.

Jonah : [57:51] So yeah that would be a good case also to have a few things on-prem, especially for non-prod environment. But if ever there’s a use case that like you know in the real world scenario is: usually you have the dev environment, the QA for the QA team, the staging or UAT for like the business folks to test before it goes to production. Those like the typical four environments. But usually if you really need to have this like if you have cloud native and you really need to be on on the cloud there’s actually a typical subscription in Azure that’s called Azure Dev/Test which is typically cheaper than a normal subscription, and if you’re like an Azure partner or you’re utilizing their hybrid benefits, you can actually have cheaper price on this subscription that you’re working in non-prod. And there are free services as well in Azure that like those that are non-prod projects can utilize as well.

Jamie : [58:57] Yeah. I guess a question on that then is: how do you know which ones to use? So you said that there are some sort of, again I know the answer to this, but I’m asking so that hopefully somebody out there who maybe is listening along knows that they want to ask this: you’re saying that there’s some sort of paid tier of Azure resources and some sort of free tier of Azure resources; some free tier that I can use for dev/tests. So how do I know which ones need to be free and which ones need to be paid? And if there’s a free option why don’t i just put my app on the free version right?

Jonah : [59:36] Yeah, that’s a tricky part because Because, you know, I mean, I’m an Azure MVP. I use Azure at work and even personal. But, of course, cloud providers always want to have money. But as we as advocates of the technology and someone using it, we don’t work for Microsoft. We are honest about like things where we can save money. There is actually free services in Azure, but you have to be specific in finding them. I mean, there are actually, if you Google it, you can find out. But there are specific tiers in terms of like Azure functions, Cosmos DB, SQL database that are non-prod and free, almost literally cost nothing as long as you have a subscription.

Jonah : [1:00:21] So in your Azure portal, usually when you search, there’s a menu on the left side that says “all services”. And then when you go in there, you can filter for Azure services or partner marketplace services. And then categorize by security, compute, and all this stuff. But somewhere in, I think in one of the options, there’s free services. So when you click on that, you’ll see the tiers and the type of services that you can avail for free. And I usually recommend this to my students because I’m a Microsoft Certified Trainer. I teach Azure fundamentals and Azure development to developers or consultants here in Sweden or wherever I’m asked to teach. I tell them that, “if your company doesn’t allow you to use your work account to play around with Azure, try out the free services or at least make use of the sandboxes that Microsoft Learn has.” And that’s free. You don’t need to pay for it for just learning and trying to get your hands on on these technologies.

Jamie : [1:01:29] I agree with using the learn, so learn.microsoft.com and their free offerings and their sandboxes on there. I’ve actually, I work with a lot of students in sort of my local area and I do that rather than doing it online. Cause then I can go and sit with them if they get stuck. And one of the things that I often say is, “hey if, you know, I’m a little busy right now, I will get back to yo as soon as I can, but go have a look at this page on Microsoft Learn and it’s covering the same thing but I need you to have a look at how they recommend doing it. Maybe that will answer your question.” And it is a great, great way to learn, right?

Jonah : [1:02:09] Yeah, it is.

Jonah : [1:02:11] I always believe that if there’s a will to continue to do continuous learning, which is a great mindset to have as a developer or as a human being, I think there’s a lot of free resources today. Of course my book is not free you, need to buy it; I can give you a discount for a signed copy. You can buy it on Amazon; but I wish it was free but I spent a lot of hours–I think 300 hours–in that book and through my publisher.

Jonah : [1:02:41] But other than that there is actually a lot of free resources on YouTube, on LinkedIn and if you follow other MVPs like us, MVPs around the community you’ll be able to see that they’re really passionate about sharing their knowledge to those that are willing to learn. You just need to be like, find your mission, like go back to the why. Why do you want to learn Azure? Why are you coding [in] .NET? Why do you want to do that job that you’re doing? Or why are you aiming for that career? That’s the big first step actually in finding your why. And then if you have that 100% motivation that you got this why, then the rest will come, come, come flow freely like a magic. So it just flow.

Jamie : [1:03:29] Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to let folks know that if you don’t know about it, there is a “Find an MVP” sort of search that Microsoft have. So if you put into your search engine, “Find an MVP”, or you click the link that will be in the show notes, you can actually search for a person in your area who is an MVP in a specific technology. And usually–I cannot volunteer anyone, but- usually you can click through, and find their social pages. So you can go, “oh this person is on X; this person is on Bluesky or whatever,” and click a button and actually get in contact with them.

Jamie : [1:04:05] It is in public, so like, you can say, “hey, I’m having… can I have a chat with you over DM or whatever? I’ve had a crazy idea and I’m a bit stuck, can you help?” Sometimes they will help, sometimes they won’t. But yeah there is that feature; so if you if you want to get in touch with an MVP, or rather if you want to get in touch with an MVP that’s not Jonah or myself, then you can use that service, too. That will probably help you to find other folks in your area.

Jamie : [1:04:31] And guess what, if you run a meetup or a conference and you want an MPV there, you can go drill down to like a geographical area and say, “get me all the MVPs in the area.” “Oh wow, my conference is on .NET and there are 12 MVPs in the area. Maybe I can reach out to them to see if they want to come along to my conference.”

Jonah : [1:04:52] Yes, that’s a good place to start, actually. And most MVPs are very passionate about the technologies they’re awarded for. So if you notice, I’m a .NET developer, but my MVP category is Azure. But I’m very close to combining two, the .NET and Azure, because they work pretty close and synergize pretty close together. And it’s always good to encourage and motivate, inspire other developers as well, especially those that are just beginning in their journey. So technology doesn’t need to be scary. It needs to be fun, and creative, and logical, and community. That’s why I believe that community makes it more inclusive somehow and welcoming and more fun to learn.

Jamie : [1:05:45] Absolutely. Absolutely. So with all that being said, then we’re running out of time. We’re talking about keeping the fun in the learning. Let’s just remind everyone a little bit about you, remind everyone about the Empower Women in Tech podcast, and remind folks about the book as well, just as we’re sort of wrapping up.

Jonah : [1:06:07] Yeah, so I want to thank first of all, Jamie, for inviting me to be part of this episode or podcast. We did discuss a lot of great things from my journey when I do .NET, cloud migration, and my book, and also things to think about when you’re developing apps for cloud. But if you have more questions about Azure, .NET development, even cloud infrastructure, DevOps, feel free to check out my book or reach out to me or follow me on social media. I’m very active on X and also LinkedIn. Feel free to reach out and follow my content there and I’d be glad to help.

Jonah : [1:06:53] And I also have podcasts, Extend Women in Tech podcast. So regardless if you’re a male and a female, if you have something to share about your tech story, you are welcome. It’s part, it’s just the name that I have, Extend Women in Tech podcast. We did interview one, actually, MVP that shared about how he was inspired about the podcast and wanted her daughter, I mean, his daughter to listen to it as well. So check it out.

Jonah : [1:07:19] I also have a user group in Sweden where I host virtual meetups biweekly, every Saturday with another AI MVP from Norway. And if you are someone who wants to learn about Azure, we have recorded episodes in our YouTube channel. We have a meetup scheduled actually in a week or so. We share a lot about Azure technologies. And if you are someone that wants to share knowledge, we don’t just welcome MVPs. We also mentor and welcome those that are just getting started into technical public speaking. So reach out to me. I know how it feels to be scared on stage. So just learn and just be brave. And thanks for listening to us in this episode.

Jamie : [1:08:08] No worries. It’s been a pleasure to have you on the show for sure, Jonah.

Jonah : [1:08:13] Thanks Jamie for having me

Jamie : [1:08:15] You’re very welcome, you’re very welcome. Excellent.

Jamie : [1:08:19] Well I guess all that really remains to say that I’ve had a wonderful time, and thank you for being on the show. And yeah awesome, thank you.

Jonah : [1:08:29] Yes, thanks for having me and enjoy.

Wrapping Up

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Modern .NET Show with me, Jamie Taylor. I’d like to thank this episode’s guest for graciously sharing their time, expertise, and knowledge.

Be sure to check out the show notes for a bunch of links to some of the stuff that we covered, and full transcription of the interview. The show notes, as always, can be found at the podcast's website, and there will be a link directly to them in your podcatcher.

And don’t forget to spread the word, leave a rating or review on your podcatcher of choice—head over to dotnetcore.show/review for ways to do that—reach out via our contact page, or join our discord server at dotnetcore.show/discord—all of which are linked in the show notes.

But above all, I hope you have a fantastic rest of your day, and I hope that I’ll see you again, next time for more .NET goodness.

I will see you again real soon. See you later folks.

Useful Links

• Jonah Andersson
• Azure Usergroup Sweden
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• Learning Microsoft Azure
• Jonah on LinkedIn
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• Well-Architected Framework (WAF)
• AppCAT
• Azure for .NET Developers
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• Azure Dev/Test
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• Ollama
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